Rent to Rent

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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:48 pm

Just a point of interest:

15 months ago a number of you came to a Property event that I hosted in Pimlico, and will have met a couple called Caroline & Leen - they have been renting 3/4 properties from me for 2/3 years now, it's just that I've never called it R2R.
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:26 am

But the consequences of not dotting all the i & crossing the t can be rather dramatic:

Two landlords in the same London borough have been hit with enormous costs after converting properties into bedsits without planning permission and will have to forfeit their rent.

Hassam Hussain, who converted a maisonette into nine studio flats, was ordered to pay £552,736. The sum includes a confiscation order of £494,314. The figure was held to be the amount of rent he had received as a result of the illegal conversion.

Hussain was also fined £20,000 and ordered to pay Brent Council’s legal costs of £38,422.?

The other Brent landlord, John Fearon, was ordered by Harrow Crown Court to pay £235,000.

He had converted a property into 13 bedsits without planning permission.

Brent Council told the court that he had obtained £235,000 by renting out the property in breach of a planning enforcement notice.

Fearon was also fined £10,000 and ordered to pay the council’s legal costs of £32,227.

Source:
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby joanna caroline » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:37 pm

And that is the power of the dodgy webinar and famous "Flying by the Seat of Your Pants" strategy
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Ken E » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:43 pm

I dont quite get the connection with R2R, the article made it sound like they were the owners and there was no mention of a third party?
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:53 pm

Ken,

Yes you are right, I chose to make a connection, however I think that it's a valid connection. The R2R strategy involves taking another LL's property & getting a better yield from it, the classic ways being adding rooms etc as these LL were doing. I was just highlighting that "taking action" might have consequences if you don't bother with i & t.

I wonder what would happen to the owner's income if a R2Rer was hit by a proceeds of crime prosecution?
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Ken E » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:25 pm

Nick wrote:Ken,

Yes you are right, I chose to make a connection, however I think that it's a valid connection. The R2R strategy involves taking another LL's property & getting a better yield from it, the classic ways being adding rooms etc as these LL were doing. I was just highlighting that "taking action" might have consequences if you don't bother with i & t.

I wonder what would happen to the owner's income if a R2Rer was hit by a proceeds of crime prosecution?


There seem to have been a few cases like that recently, where rental profits have been confiscated, I presume under civil orders though rather than proceeds of crime? I guess it could be either, although in this case, as it was for breach of planning permission, more likely the former.

But yes very important to dot the 'i's and cross the 't's regardless of strategy. Winging it will only get most people so far before it falls apart.
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:39 pm

Ken,

It was interesting that the proceeds of crime act was used, because you are correct - the 2004 Housing Act does say somewhere that if a property isn't licensed when it should be then tenants and the LA can apply to a court for rent & housing benefit to be repaid. I had been going to refer to this, but decided not to because I'm not familiar with the regulations, and I'm not sure how far it goes (e.g. whether it applies to Article 4 properties).

Sue Maxwell Smith has been on 2 of the 4 R2R courses that I know, and spoke very highly of them, I'll ask her what they said about the risks of having to repay rent.
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Ken E » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:57 pm

The daft thing is usually that these landlords get plenty of warning and opportunites to put things right before the proecutions start. It always amazes me that landlords let things get this far, but maybe they just dont think the coucil will actually follow through on the threats of prosecution. Or of course they may have cornered themselves financially and dont have any option to put things right.

I doubt these landords have been on any of the guru courses. Overfilled, cramped and dangerous accomadation is not some new strategy, in fact its probably the reason we have so many of the housing laws that currently exist, to try and prevent such Richard.
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:05 pm

Ken E wrote:The daft thing is usually that these landlords get plenty of warning and opportunites to put things right before the proecutions start. It always amazes me that landlords let things get this far, but maybe they just dont think the coucil will actually follow through on the threats of prosecution. Or of course they may have cornered themselves financially and dont have any option to put things right.

I doubt these landords have been on any of the guru courses. Overfilled, cramped and dangerous accomadation is not some new strategy, in fact its probably the reason we have so many of the housing laws that currently exist, to try and prevent such Richard.


ROFL

Words of gold! have you thought of running a course or being a Guru? You'd be good, but wasted in the role, I'd have you as Housing Minister or PM.
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Ken E » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:20 pm

Blush :oops: Blush

Have nothing against teaching if someone wants to pay me for my time, but not anything I have imminent plans for. In part because why teach when you can do :lol: and at the moment I am doing busy having fun with the doing part. Think I have said it before I am neithe for or agisnt the proeprty guru thing, msolty it jsut doesnt affect me.

As for politics, its the irony that those only those who dont want the power would actually be suited to the role. I'd consider a post as master of the universe (what can a lowly PM really change?), but not sure what I could achieve as I cant even manage to stop two friends from bickering online! :cry:
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby LisaOrme » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:25 pm

Billy Connolly hit the nail on the head when he said 'the very desire to be a politician should prevent you from being one'!
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Ruth » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:26 pm

LisaOrme wrote:Billy Connolly hit the nail on the head when he said 'the very desire to be a politician should prevent you from being one'!


ROFL
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Ken E » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:36 pm

LisaOrme wrote:Billy Connolly hit the nail on the head when he said 'the very desire to be a politician should prevent you from being one'!


Shame he didnt hit a politician on the head :lol:

I like the old (rumour mill and made up history alert) pagan idea that the kings blood was tied to the land. If the crops failed then the king had failed and his blood has to be spilt on the land as a sacrfiical gift to the gods. Off with their heads!
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:48 pm

ROFL to Lisa/Connolly & Ken's Blood on the Land.

Re: Blood - I'd settle for taking back banker's bonuses if they go bust, but then I'm a softie.
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:16 am

And yesterday's Guardian has an article about the social aspects of R2R. Meet the new class of landlords profiting from Generation Rent - it's not good publicity for Landlords, although I think it's significant that most of the people featured in the article run GRQ courses.

I'll probably comment more after the Rugby!
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:30 pm

The Mortgage Works’ spokeswoman said the its buy-to-let mortgages specify no sub-letting is allowed: “With the exception of sub-letting through Local Authority or corporate letting schemes, sub-letting is not accepted by TMW.

“We would expect the landlord to take prudent steps to ensure the property is being tenanted in line with the terms of their tenancy agreement.”


Landlords with mortgages from BM Solutions may rent to sub-letters. A BM Solutions spokeswoman said: "It is a ultimately a landlords decision as to whether or not to allow their property to be sub-let.
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Rob H » Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:58 pm

Nick wrote:
The Mortgage Works’ spokeswoman said the its buy-to-let mortgages specify no sub-letting is allowed: “With the exception of sub-letting through Local Authority or corporate letting schemes, sub-letting is not accepted by TMW.

“We would expect the landlord to take prudent steps to ensure the property is being tenanted in line with the terms of their tenancy agreement.”


Landlords with mortgages from BM Solutions may rent to sub-letters. A BM Solutions spokeswoman said: "It is a ultimately a landlords decision as to whether or not to allow their property to be sub-let.


Sub-let through a business and there you have a 'corporate letting scheme'
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:18 pm

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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Nick » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:05 pm

You need to check this out yourselves, but I am told that Unida Place is still trading because some tenants have yet to leave and are still paying rent ............
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Re: Rent to Rent

Postby Ahmwaah » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:24 pm

I read about that story too.

I feel sorry for the tenants but I also feel a bit sorry for Danny boy because he got himself into a right mess. He was really ambitious and very full on when you first meet him - but that can lead to problems.

I know him really well and he has made a statement stating he is going to pay back all of the funds. Let's just hope, for every bodies sake, it happens.

The business is not trading. There are no longer any staff.
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